The “How could I forget you?” open thread.

I got all caught up in some stupid Twitter conversation about how religious people do or do not believe that gods solve our problems with magic AND FORGOT YOU. I do hope you’ll forgive me. Have at it! (But don’t forget: I’m super busy with work – if you get stuck in moderation, I’ll fish you out as soon as ever I can!)

Standard FYI clause: My rule of thumb is that I wait for 2 hours after Ta-Nehisi would usually open a thread (roughly noon, EST), and if none is forthcoming, I put one up here.

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246 Comments

  1. Now I have the urge to sing “Forget You.” This is entirely Your Fault.

    • BJonthegrid

       /  February 28, 2012

      Go Ahead and U tube it so we can watch.

    • I prefer the uncensored version…not for you guys specifically of course, but musically speaking.

      • aaron singer

         /  February 28, 2012

        I prefer Harry Nilsson’s similar song, “You’re Breakin’ My Heart.”

        • dave in texas

           /  February 28, 2012

          Absolutely. It’s a shame that “Coconut”is the the only Nilsson song anybody remembers.

          • Ahem. I can sing the entire album “The Point!” Does that count?

            • dave in texas

               /  February 28, 2012

              Why yes, yes it does. Good work.

            • watson42

               /  February 28, 2012

              Wow. I thought I was the only person in the world who remembers “The Point.”

              • cofax

                 /  February 28, 2012

                Add me to the list!

                “Sit beside the breakfast table/ think about your troubles/ poor yourself a cup of tea/ and think about the bubbles…”

          • aaron singer

             /  February 28, 2012

            The first I had heard of him was hearing Neko Case cover “Don’t Forget Me.”

  2. BJonthegrid

     /  February 28, 2012

    I had strong feelings as a teen about privacy but being a mom in the digital age is a tad complicated. So both my kids have cell phone. Oldest has had one for two years and maybe has used it a dozen times. He’s not a talker. The youngest just got his two weeks ago and he has contacts and he has the texting skills of a court recorder. Yesterday I made him surrended his phone so I could read the messages. He stood beside me while I read them. I told him he shouldn’t be texting anything he doesn’t want me to see. He was cool with it but I wondered later today if I handled it okay? What do you think?

    • I might have asked him to show the phone, rather than make him, but other than that seems like it worked out OK.

    • I think kids should have private spaces, and that should be one. But, you know, I don’t have any kids, so what do I really know?

      • BJonthegrid

         /  February 28, 2012

        He’s 10 not 14 …. I think that makes a difference? Technically by law, he can’t event be left alone at home for a few hours. It’s not that I want to snoop, I feel compelled to. You read about these kids whose parents ddn’t know they had face book until they leave to meet up with some middle age man or bullying etc. So I figure I’d rather look with him there so if I see something we can discuss it then.

        • I think 10 is a little young to have a phone that isn’t a jitterbug.

          I don’t think you’re in the wrong . Yet. If he were 14, then yes, I think it would be different. And I would have no idea what to do. When my SIL gets there, I’ll let you know what she does, since she’s the most amazing parent I’ve ever seen.

          • BJonthegrid

             /  February 28, 2012

            I don’t mind you questioning a 10 yr old having a cell phone. I was in my 20’s before I had one. Dominic skipped a grade but he goes to middle school next year – which is when we gave oldest his phone. He got it for his birthday because my husband got an upgrade and a deal. Most of the fifth graders already had a phone. The middle school is in my neighborhood so my kids are walkers…..hence the phone.

            • Man are things ever changing quickly. It was really weird talking to my roommate and his girlfriend a couple nights ago about Facebook. They basically went into college with FB up and running, whereas it didn’t show up until my sophomore year or so and that was still at the point where you needed a college email address to join.

              • aaron singer

                 /  February 28, 2012

                You must be the same age as me: I remembered when it launched my sophomore year, and it was called thefacebook.

                A year before that, I arrived at college without a cell phone, and without a computer.

                • You people make me feel old. Facebook appeared after I left college.

                  • dave in texas

                     /  February 28, 2012

                    All y’all make me feel old. When I went to college (the first time anyway) I showed up with an 8-track tape deck and a 13″ black and white TV.

                    Kids. Lawn. Off. And all that stuff.

                    • BJonthegrid

                       /  February 28, 2012

                      Geez, even my TV had color.

                    • Bookwoman

                       /  February 28, 2012

                      You’re all young whippersnappers. I went to college with a turntable and vinyl. No one had a TV in their room, but some people did have amazing stereo setups. Big ‘ol JBL speakers deliver fabuluous sound.

                    • My TV was color, and also was my computer monitor. Because I went to school with an Atari computer.

                    • efgoldman

                       /  February 28, 2012

                      When I went to college, only one kid on the floor had a (B&W) TV in his room. A computer was the big honkin’ thing that NBC used to tally the election returns. A calculator was a 25-30 lb. mechancal beast, cost many hundreds of $$, used in places like trucking companies to calculate rates (keyboard was 10 numbers wide, 10 rows high, solution appeared in rotating numbers at the top.) The phone was a rectangular box on the wall, about 6″x10″x2″ deep, with a dial on the front. You could go as far away as the length of the cord. The library had rental typewriters, with coin slides for quarters. My typewriter was a portable in a suitcase, and the keys always stuck together. To make a correction, you had to use “erasable” paper and a typewriter eraser. When you went to class, you carried an onion on your belt, because that was the fashion at the time'; and that’s the way it was, and we liked it!

                • I had a computer (I’d nominally had one of my own since I went away to an east coast prep school for the summer after my freshman year of high school), but no cell phone. Didn’t get that til I was almost done with my junior year. Caused some trouble, that.

              • BJonthegrid

                 /  February 28, 2012

                I LEARNED FORTRAN IN COLLEGE – we were grateful to have landlines in my dorm room.

              • I created a Facebook account when I was 27, at the request of my then-boyfriend (now-husband), so he could say who he was “in a relationship” with.

                Because I’m older than he is, and he had Facebook in college. But from my vantage point, it was being invented by some brat on the other side of the river while I was finishing up grad school.

                He and everyone he knew also had cell phones in college, where I was the first among my friends to have one and it was just for emergencies, because I was driving a piece of shit 15-year-old car across the state at night fairly often.

                • R got a cell phone because I made him. When we first started dating, he was still carrying a pager.

                • BJonthegrid

                   /  February 28, 2012

                  We don’t have a FaceBook Account… i won’t get one until my kids do…..and they have to be 14. So that will put me close to 27+12 – still looking good. ( maybe it won’t be around then)

                  • aaron singer

                     /  February 28, 2012

                    My sisters are a few years older than me (38 and 34, I’m 27). One has had a facebook account for a couple years now, the other I know will never get one (she actually doesn’t use a computer all that much).

                • dave in texas

                   /  February 28, 2012

                  I held out for a long time on getting a cell phone. I finally got one when the Howard Dean campaign wouldn’t hire me unless I had one.

                  • helensprogeny

                     /  February 28, 2012

                    Clients did it for me. Imagine the nerve, clients expecting to get in touch with me! I resisted. But now I don’t know what I’d do without it. Same thing with a computer.

                    • dave in texas

                       /  February 28, 2012

                      Yeah, I can’t imagine doing without either at this point, and I was one of those folks in the early 80s that didn’t think computers would ever catch on as a thing lots of people would ever want. People kept saying “you can do your bank statement on it!” To which I’d reply, I can do it now with a calculator and scratch paper, why do I need a $1000 machine? Of course, then that internet thingie got fairly successful

                    • helensprogeny

                       /  February 28, 2012

                      Hah! I resisted answering machines, for godsakes. And ATMs. At this point, I feel as though I’ve nearly surrendered my Luddite card, what with the android phone and the new laptop. Maybe I’ve just given up in despair. Resistance is futile. Go ahead, tech me!

        • I don’t really feel like you have to justify your parenting to anyone, especially me. I mean, if this is your choice, then God bless. This is just my own philosophy, that even with young kids I would err on the side of being hands-off with written communications like email and text messages, in the same way I would with a diary (which is a little different, obviously). I hear what you’re saying about Facebook, where you’re worried about your kids being preyed upon. I don’t know, I got all the talks from my mom when I was a kid about strangers and that shit (this was kind of the height of the paranoid, Satanists want to kidnap your kids 80’s) and that was enough to scare me shitless about it. But then again, I didn’t have a cell phone (or Facebook, or even email) for her to check, so who knows what she would have done given those things.

        • Bookwoman

           /  February 28, 2012

          Snoop away. As I see it, it’s part of your job. When my kids were younger, IMing via AOL was all the rage. Since my son’s computer wasn’t hooked up to the internet (yes, this was the dark ages), he used my husband’s when he went online. Unbeknownst to him, I installed a program that logged his IM sessions.

          After a few months’ worth of reading extremely boring IMs about sports, I stopped looking. But you can bet that if I had seen anything I didn’t like I would have sat him down and we would have had discussions.

          • BJonthegrid

             /  February 28, 2012

            I got so bored half thru reading the messages, I handed him the phone back. Actually, I am glad he can text. If I had to listen to just his half of the conversation, I might have wanted to bang my head against a wall. Hahaha

        • corkingiron

           /  February 28, 2012

          In this age, your child is not at home here; he’s “out and about” in an electronic world that is wonderful and sometimes dangerous. Would you let him wander around in the world’s greatest theme park without supervision?

          The act of parenting often compels us to choose between two courses of action that are fraught with ethical difficulties – yet we must choose. You’ve considered the issues carefully and made your choice according to your child’s best interests. That’s probably why he calls you “Mom” :)

          Ergo, cut yourself some slack.

          • BJonthegrid

             /  February 28, 2012

            You really need to get started on that parenting book. Your advice is the best.

    • ralphdibny

       /  February 28, 2012

      Did you ever hear the This American Life episode where the dad tapped his son’s phone line? Long story short–the dad makes his kid listen to what a jerk he was on the phone, which winds up being a much more effective lesson than just yelling at him for being a jerk. (seriously–check it out: the second act is They Might Be Giants!) http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/90/telephone

      So I guess my question is, are you worried that he’ll be texting inappropriate things? And if so, do you think calling him out will be a successful deterrence?

      • BJonthegrid

         /  February 28, 2012

        Short answer: No, but doesn’t every parent say that?

    • socioprof

       /  February 28, 2012

      My kiddos are 8 and 2. I don’t look forward to facing these choices.

      I see a lot of merit in your approach. OTOH, it’s not like your son doesn’t know how to delete the texts that he doesn’t want you to see. I am thinking that parenting tweens and teens requires a balance of hawkish vigilance, trust, prayer, willful ignorance, and surreptitious drinking.

      • mythopoeia

         /  February 28, 2012

        There are, I believe, ways to get copies of text messages emailed to you. This may be smartphone-only though.

        I personally wouldn’t install that on a kid’s phone unless they’d established grounds for needing the extra monitoring, though.

      • corkingiron

         /  February 28, 2012

        When our kids were going through their teens, a common question between Mrs. C & I was:
        “Wait! Whose turn is it to give up on them tonight?”

        • chingona

           /  February 28, 2012

          It’s funny. When I was just a wee former teenager myself, I had tremendous faith in the ability of seemingly troubled kids (like my brother) to pull it together. Now that I’m a newspaper reporter in a college town with a party school reputation, I see kids fuck up SO BADLY – like kill each and get killed fuck ups – then add in the whole having my own kids thing, and I sometimes can hardly sleep at night. And my oldest is only six! Sometimes, locking them in the basement forever starts to seem like a reasonable course of action.

          • socioprof

             /  February 28, 2012

            I was thinking about locking my boys in a bedroom closet. Maybe I’ll use it for myself.

          • BJonthegrid

             /  February 28, 2012

            NOT HELPFUL! TAKE IT BACK AND TELL ME EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY!

            • chingona

               /  February 28, 2012

              Sorry. That kind of was a “Here, taste this, it’s awful!” kind of comment. I take it back. Unicorns! Rainbows! Unicorns farting rainbows! Everything will be wonderful!

            • R_Bargis

               /  February 28, 2012

              I for one have great faith that your sons will end up smart, successful, respectable, and loving young men who call their mother every Sunday and put smiles on the old folks’ faces when they go back to their childhood church — “Those, there, are two fine young men. Their mother raised them right.”

              But they’re still going to be complete pains in the ass till they’re 25! YOU CAN DO IT!

          • David L

             /  February 28, 2012

            I found out last night that a couple of the students in the co-ed fraternity I was a part of (and am still involved with as the chapter’s alumni advisor), both honors students, both officers, both with really promising futures, had dropped out of college altogether after one of them got the other pregnant. I was torn between “Wow, bummer,” and wanting to track them down so that I could give them the “I am so DISAPPOINTED in you two.”

            • David L

               /  February 28, 2012

              On re-reading this, a thought struck me: I cannot think of a good verb phrase to describe the moment of procreation that doesn’t take agency away from one parent (e.g., “he got her pregnant”) or seem somewhat twee in the context of an unplanned pregnancy (“they conceived a child.”)

              In my case, I could have gone with something that describes a state of being which applies equally to both of them (“they have a baby on the way”), but it’s interesting to think that I don’t really have a good arrow in my linguistic quiver for it.

        • socioprof

           /  February 28, 2012

          Yeah, I’ve long told my husband that I’ll take the boys from 0-12 and getting them through those next six years is on him.

    • taylor16

       /  February 28, 2012

      I am laughing that I am entering this conversation less than 24 hours after a conversation where I agreed that non-parents shouldn’t talk about parenting. Heh.

      I think that initially reading texts for a 10 year old is okay, if only to set up the clear message that he is expected to behave appropriately via text/FB/email and that you reserve the right to police his behavior if he’s not. I grew up in the early dial-up internet days and I remember my internet access being taken away sometimes (although never for anything shockingly inappropriate).

      But that being said, you can’t continue that indefinitely. You have to come up with a plan to walk it back so that you are giving him more leeway when he proves trustworthy and so you aren’t reading all of his texts when he’s like 15, you know? He does need to have privacy, even if it’s to do things you don’t think he should do. I think that once he gets older you can have more explicit talks about what is and isn’t okay and of what can happen if he messes up online. Right now, simply letting him know that “what he thinks is private isn’t always be or stay private” might be an okay lesson to learn this way??

      But you know, feel free to ignore those thoughts, since I feel a little weird even offering them up as a non-parent. :)

      • BJonthegrid

         /  February 28, 2012

        This is my thinking too. If my oldest actually used his phone, we would have probably formed a policy before this one, Trust me, I don’t want to read a 16 year old boys messages ( I might send them to military school by then …..joking)

    • mythopoeia

       /  February 28, 2012

      Disclaimer: I am not a mom, only a former pre-teen.

      As a kid, I would have felt there was a huge difference between “you get the privilege of this cell phone: here are some restrictions on how it can be used, some ground rules on how your parents will oversee it, and some reasons it can be taken away” and a scenario where “here is a thing you can have” that turns into, seemingly at random times: “I want to check up on you.” The important thing, I would think, is that the kid sees the cell phone monitoring in the context of his privilege to use it and your & his father’s expectations of his behavior, rather than as something you do at seemingly random times.

      I would also consider what sort of behavior you want to be monitoring for and/or having a discussion with the kid about. Are you checking up on all his behavior, or just for dire scenarios? If you see text messages that show him goofing off with his friends and saying dumb things, are those worth a reprimand? Punishment? How about text messages timestamped during the school day? Or are you only checking for things like bullying and really unsafe behavior? Do you want to perhaps change what you’re checking for–and/or give the kid more privileges–as he grows older?

      It’s got to be hard trying to figure out how to mediate a child’s relationship to tech–there are so many variables and it’s still so relatively new. Hopefully this helps a bit.

      • taylor16

         /  February 28, 2012

        Yes, this. As a pre-teen, I would have reacted okay if there were ground rules for what was considered acceptable and what was not, and if commentary/punishment only happened along the lines of those rules. And rather than random monitoring, I would have responded okay to it as something that was done regularly at first but then walked back as I proved I was trustworthy (and possibly reinstated if I broke one of the ground rules).

        Making it, as you say, a privilege that can be taken away rather than just random violations of privacy throughout my preteenhood.

        • R_Bargis

           /  February 28, 2012

          Oh, goodness, yes, I agree so much. My parents were completely arbitrary in enforcing any rules and it drove me up the wall because I felt like they didn’t trust me at all when I had good grades, dull friends, and was a pretty dull teenager.

          It finally came down to them admitting that as long as I lived with them I didn’t have ANY right to privacy – for instance, I wasn’t allowed to lock my door and I had to come immediately when called, no matter what I was doing (homework, phone call, napping) — yet they never monitored my computer use and let me go places in boyfriends’ cars! Their lack of consistency drove me up the wall and resulted in me moving away to college at 17 and never coming back.

      • BJonthegrid

         /  February 28, 2012

        This makes a lot of sense.

      • chingona

         /  February 28, 2012

        I like this comment. I think there’s a big difference from the kid’s perspective between ground rules laid out in advance and random invasions of privacy. It is a tough balance with technology. I’m kind of glad my kids are young so I have some time to think this through, but we’ll probably all have microchips in our brain or something by the time my kids are teenagers.

    • David L

       /  February 28, 2012

      I’d like to think that, if/when I had children, that I would trust them enough to not make a point of regularly going through their communications (I might check occasionally, and I may find that I’m not trusting at all) but I don’t fault anyone who does.

      For me, the big difference between texting, internet messaging, etc. and sitting on the jungle gym having a conversation is that the more modern communications leave a record, so I’d consider anything seen in those records to be equivalent to overhearing something said with the assumption that you wouldn’t/might not hear. These are way past your kids’ age group, but it seems like I heard a lot from people my age and younger about parents who signed up for Facebook, friended their kid, then got upset about things posted on their wall weeks, months, or years prior without understanding that it was meant as a remark to friends, not an announcement to the world.

      • BJonthegrid

         /  February 28, 2012

        My 16 year old neice and I folllow each other on twitter. No problems. Her mom follows her too. I plan to follow my kids when they get facebook but I’m more dramatic than both of them so they may have to worry about me more than I would about them.

    • I think you’re doing the right thing. A LOT of cyber-bullying in my school happens via text message. Not only do you want to check him (a la phone etiquette), you also want to see what he’s receiving and keep an eye out for that. You’ve given him a powerful tool, and now you’re teaching him how to use it.

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      I believe that Corkingiron and Mythopoeia have covered the two sides of the issue well: your need to do your duty as a parent v. your son’s need to have a growing sphere of respected privacy.

      As a parent of a pre-teen, I think you are justified in everything from text-reading to spy satellites to full-bore cranial-mounted mind probes and symbiotically-implanted monitor wurms. Whatever it takes.

      As a parent of a soon-to-be-adult, I think you are right to be cautious of flagrant and random violations of privacy. You obviously wouldn’t take it well if *your* parents whipped out your phone tomorrow and started going through your text history, so there must be an eventual progression from “this is a privilege the parents are extending” to an eventual future of “this is a private thing that is entirely yours”. So long as that future path is clearly known, the exact route it takes needn’t be a source of self-doubt.

      Until then, I endorse SpawnSpy brand Endosymbiont Monitor Wurms.

      • BJonthegrid

         /  February 28, 2012

        Thanks. Neither kid has a smart phone, just texting/calling & camera (which brings up another conversation I need to have with them….sexting)

        • MightBeLying

           /  February 28, 2012

          You know? I was sexting as a teenager. Well, whatever passed for sexting when I was a teenager. (This probably puts me on the cutting-edge of sexting, It involved floppy disks.) I can see having a conversation about boundaries and pressure and trusting people and everything you put on the internet will be on the internet forever. But the whole panic over sexting in general? Meh. I do not see all the fuss. Although I wish I knew where those pictures were because I was HAWTTT.

          • chingona

             /  February 28, 2012

            I feel like my biggest fear about my kid sexting (once they’re teenagers, I mean) is that they would be charged with distributing child pornography, even if they only exchanged the pictures/texts with a boyfriend/girlfriend and end up on a sex offender registry. Which is a problem with the law, not the kids.

      • Darth Thulhu

         /  February 28, 2012

        Reading back through the threads, caught something that might be unclear:

        “As (this is a situation where you are) a parent of a pre-teen,”

        and

        “As (this is a situation where you are) a parent of a soon-to-be adult,”

        Wasn’t intending to oversell my own exposure to tween parenting, but rather wanted to emphasize how fast the same kid goes from being “your vulnerable child” to “legal adult”.

        Sorry for any confusion that may have caused. I swear it made sense in my head.

  3. dmf

     /  February 28, 2012

  4. David L

     /  February 28, 2012

    What is it about Santorum that causes even sane liberals (e.g., my mother) to start with childish name-calling?

    • dmf

       /  February 28, 2012

      he is telling the conservative agenda as it is and with the appropriate affect/tone, so name calling seems like an appropriate response, what I don’t get is why liberals try and reason people out of their faith commitments, I thought we were supposed to be the science-minded ones in the culture wars.

    • chingona

       /  February 28, 2012

      I find a lot of his ideas extremely offensive and in particular, as a woman, dehumanizing. So it’s hard to be civil about it.

      I wouldn’t try to reason him out of his own faith commitment, but I vigorously object to having it imposed on me.

      On the other hand, I think he’s taking a lot of these culture war notions to their logical conclusions. He just lays it bare. If he were the nominee and were defeated by an overwhelming majority, it might help put some of this stuff to rest as live political issues. On the third hard, if he were the nominee and the economy tanked and he won, it would be really scary.

      • dmf

         /  February 28, 2012

        well I don’t see anyone winning with a lay it to rest majority (look how close the actual votes were in the last election) but I would welcome his running and losing, my worry is more all the wasted efforts going into arguing that would be better spent organizing. I think that we have been mislead (maybe by the academy?) to confuse debate/fact-checking with direct/useful political action and the conservatives have been kicking our butts with grassroots organizing and local politics.

        • chingona

           /  February 28, 2012

          Agree about the organizing. I think we’ve started to see more of this with the Komen thing and the Virginia ultrasound bill, and I hope it continues. We’re overdue for a backlash.

      • David L

         /  February 28, 2012

        What bothers me about what I keep hearing, is that the name-calling never has anything that’s directly connected to his politics. It’s “Sweater Vest Santorum”, or “Frothy Mix”, or “Rick Sanctimonious”, not “Rick ‘Anti-Woman’ Santorum.”

        It reminds me of middle school and how I would join in the taunting of a fellow student about his red hair and glasses when, really, my complaint was that I didn’t like his personality.

        • socioprof

           /  February 28, 2012

          The headlines don’t help. HuffPo has one up now that says that Santorum has the “momentum swinging” his way. Thanks to Dan Savage, this leads to my forming a mental image of a big bucket of frothy mix experiencing centrifugal force. Who can resist sharing that?

          • Darth Thulhu

             /  February 28, 2012

            Sullivan linked to a beautiful and deliberately crafted newspaper headline in Alabama:

            Santorum comes from behind in three-way

    • chingona

       /  February 28, 2012

      I wouldn’t normally link to Andrew Sullivan and this may not be your mother’s issue with him, but I thought this analysis of what Santorum is about was pretty good.

      In fact, one of Santorum’s advantages in this race, especially against Romney, is that we can see exactly where he stands. There can be no absolute separation of church and state, let alone a desire to keep it so; and in their necessary interactions, the church must always prevail, or it is a violation of the First Amendment, and an attack on religious freedom. The church’s teachings are also, according to theoconservatism, integral to the founding of the United States. Since constitutional rights are endowed from the Creator, and the Creator is the Judeo-Christian one, the notion of a neutral public square, embraced by liberals and those once called conservatives, is an attack on America. America is a special nation because of this unique founding on the Judeo-Christian God. It must therefore always be guided by God’s will, and that will is self-evident to anyone, Catholic or Protestant, atheist or Mormon, Jew or Muslim, from natural law.

      Hence the notion that America could countenance Tcs2abortion or same-sex marriage is anathema to Santorum and to theoconservatism. It can only be explained as the work of Satan, so alien is it to the principles of Judeo-Christian America. Hence the resort to constitutional amendments to ban both: total resolutions of these issues for ever must reflect what theocons believe was in the Founders’ hearts and minds.

      This has long been the theocon argument; it was the crux of what I identified as the core Republican problem in “The Conservative Soul”. It is not social conservatism, as lazy pundits call it. It is a radical theocratically-based attack on modern liberal democracy; and on modernity as a whole.

      • taylor16

         /  February 28, 2012

        God, does that terrify me. It really does.

      • helensprogeny

         /  February 28, 2012

        I’ve been off Sullivan of late, but I thought he did a great job with this analysis. And yes, it’s terrifying. American Taliban, here we come.

    • SWNC

       /  February 28, 2012

      I try very, very hard not to resort to name-calling, since I don’t think it’s a productive approach. But as a pro-choice woman who uses birth control, works outside the home, and loves gay people,* Santorum’s comments feel very personal and very offensive. It’s hard not to feel attacked on a personal level and to want respond in kind.

      *Some specific people who happen to be gay. Not, you know, all gay people everywhere. Some of them are assholes.

      • Most.

      • chingona

         /  February 28, 2012

        This. In terms of name-calling, I kind of feel like he started it.

      • Darth Thulhu

         /  February 28, 2012

        Oh, we’re all assholes. But we’re also all lovable. Adorable, infuriating, lovable assholes, every one.

        Just like Frothy McSweaterVest.

    • cofax

       /  February 28, 2012

      What I don’t get is how he’s positioning himself as a Catholic’s Catholic, when so much of what he spews is antithetical to so many Catholics in this country.

      When I was growing up, JFK was a secular saint in the Irish Catholic community: people had his photo on the wall next to the Pope’s portrait! So Santorum dissing JFK the way he did this weekend? Makes my brain leak out my ears–I honestly cannot imagine any Catholic of my aquaintance actually saying that.

      Additionally, the Catholic communities in the US–Irish, Italian, Hispanic, etc.–are invested in education, particularly higher education. It’s how they got out of the slums, how they clawed their way into the middle class, so that now you aren’t limited to being a cop or a firefighter. So criticizing the idea of education? Is a slam at all his co-religionists who used education to better themselves, and who sent their kids to college to become lawyers, doctors, and engineers.

      And his whole “holier-than-thou” schtick only works if he’s actually more devout and obedient, but the’s not. He’s as much of a cafeteria Catholic as I am, except he’s pro-war and pro-death penalty, while I’m pro-female priests and pro-choice. What gives him the right to clalim the moral high ground, if he’s simultanteously ignoring half the Church’s dogma?

      • cofax

         /  February 28, 2012

        ARGH typos! My apologies–IT here purposefully hobbles our browsers, and as a result I couldn’t see the entire last paragraph I typed.

        Shorter posts from now on.

        • Darth Thulhu

           /  February 28, 2012

          Yer psot raed fyne.

          Tpyos relaly dno’t mettar mcuh. Jsut arragne teh frist und lsat lettres corretcly, peolpe wlil figrue it oot.

    • well, it doesn’t help that his own actual real name is now basically a dirty word. hard to stop calling him names once you’ve started.

  5. I have not had the best 24 hours. To save me typing (because it hurts), my most recent blog post explains. http://gonzai55.livejournal.com/416783.html

    • That’s bad. Almost a perfect storm. Can you get any professional help with your mother?

      • Talking to my brother about my mother was in fact my original plan for today, specifically trying to get her to an elder-care attorney and start prepping papers. (Not that it’ll help; he wants veto power over everything but won’t actually *do* anything.) Now today’s plan is trying to find a dog trainer in a last ditch attempt to not have to get rid of my dog :(

    • Added the link and sending you all best. Yikes.

    • socioprof

       /  February 28, 2012

      I’m so sorry.

    • SWNC

       /  February 28, 2012

      That’s some rough stuff. No advice, just support and good wishes.

    • taylor16

       /  February 28, 2012

      Oh, I’m so sorry. That sounds awful in so many ways. Sending support and hugs and hope that your hand feels better and that it’s not too serious.

    • Ian

       /  February 28, 2012

      If you want to talk about it, what are CJ’s issues (besides aggression towards other dogs)? What’s your history with CJ? We just had to get a dog stitched up, but the fights we deal with are 5-second affairs that happen once every six months or so. It’s just kind of the price we pay for having sled dogs together in a pen rather than separated on posts.

      • Well…CJ was found, as 14 week old pup, tied to a tree on a golf course in winter. She’d been there at least a day, until she was found by 3 Rottweilers and fought them off. (She has major Rottie issues.) Through chance, the Rotties’ owner and I met and I wound up with CJ. She’s never been a fan of new/unfamiliar animals, and often not much better with new people. I socialized the heck out of her including 30 weeks worth of positive training classes and she regressed socially instead of improving :p She got along with Roxie initially, but Roxie was always dominating CJ to the point of bullying. One day CJ realized she was bigger than Roxie and attacked her. It took me 5 minutes to unattach CJ from Roxie and Roxie wound up at the vets for stitches. Since then we kept them away from each other, usually not too hard as Roxie’s a wuss. But Roxie trusts Mom to know when it’s safe to come out, and Mom…doesn’t know anymore.

        • Ian

           /  February 28, 2012

          Ugh. I have no advice whatsoever, except that you obviously like CJ and want to keep her, and this can be managed by controlling who CJ can get to. We have six dogs. Four are from one litter and one is their mother. We found the four in our driveway (4-5 weeks old) and the mother came around the next day. She’s totally unsocialized, and everything we’ve tried to do to get her used to people has had the opposite effect. No aggression, she just doesn’t want to be touched or even looked at by people. Not all dogs can be made right. But she does like to run with the team, and she likes hanging out with the other dogs, so we just try to give her that and otherwise we leave her alone. Nobody would ever adopt this dog, so it’s us or the woods or lethal injection.

          Is there a way to change the, uh, mechanism of dog separation so that your mother can’t bring the two together?

          • Well, we’ve managed to keep them apart most of the time by each of them having their own crate in our respective bedrooms. One dog is out in house and one dog is in crate at any given time. If we wanted to let the crated dog out, we checked with the other human to make sure their dog was restrained before releasing the other dog. This worked for almost four years, but now Mom doesn’t check with me before letting Roxie out, she just lets her out. And a couple of times, I’ve asked if Roxie is in crate and Mom has said yes when in fact Roxie’s out.

    • Oh, so sorry to hear all of this. Have you been able to get your injuries looked at? Probably the last thing on your list considering everything else, but hopefully you can have yourself tended to….

    • helensprogeny

       /  February 28, 2012

      COMFORT button clicked. And a hug.

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      Concerned Guy voice: Get your hand looked at if it keeps getting worse. Dog bite going to the bone is not trivial.

      Frustrated Sibling voice: Get your brother to flipping help out. Guilt, anger, taking heirlooms hostage, whatever it takes. You are caretaking three big mammals by yourself, one of them has bitten you, two of them fight, and the last one wants to murder one of the first two. Unless there is a partner involved that is not mentioned in the post, you should be healing, not wrangling the Angry Mammal Circus while injured without any assistance.

      Cold, Transactional voice: What are you getting out of your relationship with CJ? The dog is adopted, so giving up means no future adopted dogs, but whatever … none of that should have any bearing on your relationship with CJ, who seems incapable of being in the same room as another member of your household (now going on two members of that household). Keeping two animals as energetic as dogs separated at all times is a massive expenditure of energy. Twice the walking, twice the feeding rigamarole, twice the containment effort. These aren’t cats who will coldly hiss and avoid each other – you are facing a worst case scenario of endless management of dominance fights. Even assuming your mother weren’t there, do you see yourself honestly enjoying your household with CJ year after year after year? If not, return. Finding pets in the future isn’t difficult, unless you are dead set on only ever adopting.

      Black humor voice: If I read this all right, your mother could illegally murder your adopted dog and the adoption agency would be none the wiser, allowing you to adopt another at any point in the future. But if you concede defeat and just return said dog, thereby saving its life from your mother, you will never be allowed to adopt again. That is seriously messed up.

      All other voices: Very sorry to hear of the events. Pray that you get appropriate assistance and care in managing the three-ring circus and healing your wrist.

      • My black humor voice was wondering if dog training techniques work on people with Alzheimers.

      • My boss (Ski Patrol) and my PT both took a look at the hand and they both think it’s just a very deep bruise and the problem is where. If I move my hand at all, the injured spot gets compressed. But they’re checking on it.

        CJ’s been my best buddy and sometimes my only buddy the last several years. If she knows someone, she’s the most affectionate and loving dog you can imagine, and she adores me. It would be really hard to give her up.

        The good news is my mother seems to have chilled out some and isn’t making ‘I’ll kill your dog’ statements now. Hopefully she’ll stay chilled.

  6. The Voice wrapped the blind audition phase last night:

    http://anibundel.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/once-more-its-the-voice-auditions-that-is/

    Tonight starts three nights of American Idol.

    • Also, you all saw the new Dr Who casting rumor yesterday, right?

      http://anibundel.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/dr-who-50th-anniversary-first-casting-rumor/

      • David L

         /  February 28, 2012

        I did, but, based on what I know by reputation of the various British tabloids, The Express makes The Sun look like the New York Times.

    • taylor16

       /  February 28, 2012

      I am so mad that I missed that episode! We had a minor-emergency vet visit and I forgot to set my DVR. I’ll be watching for the rerun on E this week. Sigh…

      • socioprof

         /  February 28, 2012

        Are the doggies ok?

        • taylor16

           /  February 28, 2012

          Oh, yes. One of them (my namesake, Taylor!) is prone to ear infections. Before we could get her to the vet for antibiotics she had shaken/scratched her ear enough that some of her blood vessels broke and she got a hematoma on her ear. Apparently it’s kind of common in dogs with floppy ears?

          Anyway, she’s fine, but they had to cut her ear open and put a bunch of sutures in it so that it can drain over the next week or so. And they put a giant hot pink bandage around her head that she has to wear until this evening. (The vet’s staff likes her, so they chose pink).

          She’ll be fine, but she is not happy with us:

          it’s okay to laugh at her. We have been. :)

          • socioprof

             /  February 28, 2012

            Oh poor girl. Tell her to get well. There’s a two-year-old in the state over that needs to pet her.

            • taylor16

               /  February 28, 2012

              Oh, she would love that. She is old and lazy and likes to lay on people’s feet and have her ears scratched (which is what makes this extra offensive to her).

              Meanwhile, her sister (my avatar at TNC’s) can fill in. She gives one very gentle kiss when you make a kissy sound at her, right on the end of your nose. Kids love it. :)

          • awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Etc.

          • SWNC

             /  February 28, 2012

            Oh, poor puppy! That face makes me want to give her so many scritches.

          • scone

             /  February 28, 2012

            Oh, she looks so annoyed. Poor puppy!

            • taylor16

               /  February 28, 2012

              She is sooooo annoyed. She just kept looking up at us last night with her whole face all scrunched up under the bandage, like “my ear was fine, mom. I stopped the itching. I hate you.”

              She didn’t seem to want to drink out of her bowl with the bandage on, though, so I found myself feeding her ice chips last night like she was a sick human being. LOL. It’s a good thing we love her so much.

  7. I am having one of those days where I wish I had never been me in public. Not that anything in particular triggered it — no massive controversy today, and while I didn’t do A+ work yesterday at least it was still B- work — but I spent, oh, nearly 30 years avoiding spotlights and adjusting to living and working in one is really, REALLY hard sometimes. Every now and again (and this is, what, week 4?) I wish in a gentle kind of way that I could just hide in a closet and walk away from all of it.

    I mean, if I *really* needed to walk away from it all I would. And it’s kind of a relief knowing at all times that I have that nuclear option in my pocket, and it would be okay to use it. I think this is a path I can keep growing on. Just some days the act of doing so is so big and so visible that I can’t even process it.

    • BJonthegrid

       /  February 28, 2012

      You can not go back. You’re living up to your potential and it’s beautiful. You can carve out privacy and manage your new public status. Find a way.

    • It seems to me that one’s public persona is different from one’s private persona. (Look at Stephen Colbert.) And you’ve never needed such a public persona before?

    • taylor16

       /  February 28, 2012

      I think that I would be terrified to be writing in a public way under my real name. Even if it was about something that I knew a lot about and loved writing about. And I’m an extrovert. I think I would find it very, very scary.

      That’s my way of saying that I think it’s normal to be a little nervous about this. It’s been 4 weeks, sure, but in the whole scheme of things that isn’t really that long for a new job and a new public persona. Do you have anyone else you can talk to about navigating this new identity?

      I don’t really have concrete advice, other than that I think this is still newer than you’re giving yourself credit for and it is completely normal to still feel weird/unsure about it.

      • I have an unreasonable fantasy that when a major publication comes and scoops up my blog (HA! yeah right.), they’ll let me stay “anibundel.”

        • corkingiron

           /  February 28, 2012

          When that happens, you should add the word “Empress” .

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      Is the fundamental nature of the Kotaku Kommentariat part of the issue? The fact that they aren’t really banhammerable like the Atlantic community at Coatesia? The fact that they’re fully 4chan-enabled when it comes to vicious meme-replication and real-life stalking skills?

      • That does make me scared. Husband and I have seriously lain awake in bed at night wondering aloud what we do if I seriously piss off the wrong people and come home one day to find the cat poisoned, or something.

        But a lot of it is just the more pedestrian “Working in public.” At my last several jobs, I had a period of time to adjust where just my boss and my team really knew who I was, and where I could make mistakes because I was on a small scale. But I’ve been standing on the stage in front of millions this whole time and that’s just not something I ever really meant to do with my life.

        • Darth Thulhu

           /  February 28, 2012

          That’s a biggun, yeah. The reason you have the job as a nice-paying gig is that it’s guaranteed to go out to millions … but that means that every little thing must indeed go out to millions. And while anyone might enjoy one’s blog going out to millions-who-comment, having one’s job go out to millions-who-comment is kinda huge.

          Would detaching from the comments help? Since Kotaku readers are such a firehose of prolificity, would it help to hold off and not read responses for a week? Or at all?

          Or is the challenge more broadly just “writing for so many people” regardless of whether or not they comment? Do you feel that is just a New Job Quirk that you will adjust to and eventually enjoy, or do you feel it is more likely a newly-discovered Thing That Is Disliked? Because there’s no shame in someone being great at something but not wanting to do that something forever as a paying career based on how it makes them feel.

          Regardless, would you enjoy a method of flashing the K-Signal and getting sustained Horde comment support? I find Kotaku very unhelpful on letting me find your specifically-authored work, and google-searching only brings up the threads that go big after they have already done so. If you’d like to tweet and/or OTAN links to the “big post of the week” where you’d appreciate some sympathy among the audience, I think many would be happy to hop on over and support.

          • efgoldman

             /  February 28, 2012

            This is her author page. http://kotaku.com/people/kcoxdc/posts/
            All her stories appear there, and the page updates every time she posts a new one. I found it by accident and don’t reember how.
            Also too, I wonder if there’s a gene for that. As a musician, I always wanted to be the soloist; as student conductor and drum major, I had no problem being out front; when I got on the radio in 1976 (and for the 20 years thereafter) I was immediately at ease, and stayed that way.
            Too bad our friend Rosalnd Jordan isn’t here today – I’d love to hear how she feels about it.
            BTW, I made plenty of mistakes on-air, some *very* embarrassing (none fireable); I just learned to keep going.

            • Darth Thulhu

               /  March 1, 2012

              Thanks for the link. Bookmarked. That link doesn’t come up anywhere in the top several pages of my google search for name + Kotaku, which is exasperating.

  8. dmf

     /  February 28, 2012

    what could the debate be? some people believe in supernatural powers acting on their behalf some don’t, seems like a pretty straightforward empirical question…

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      Seems like the exact opposite of one, honestly.

      • dmf

         /  February 28, 2012

        not sure I understand, are you doubting whether or not people would tell us the truth about their beliefs?

        • Darth Thulhu

           /  February 28, 2012

          Are they correct, or not, at having felt the presence of the Divine in their life?

          I can’t imagine a less empiracal question.

    • lasslisa

       /  February 28, 2012

      Ah, but it’s not “some people”. It’s “religious people”. And somehow, people can cast aside all of the other things that a religion says (what is or isn’t moral behavior? what is or isn’t OK to eat? what is or isn’t OK to do on a certain day of the week?) but still find themselves caught up by the first definition they were taught – “If you are a Christian, then you must” or “If you are a true believer, then you must” or “If you are truly religious, then you must”. For example, “believe the Bible is literally true”, “believe in miracles”, “forgo medical treatment in submission to the will of G-d”.

      And you get atheists who will argue – vehemently – that they can’t believe in Christianity because the evidence for evolution is so overwhelming. But what of all the Christians who are OK with evolution? Well, obviously they’re not REAL Christians, they’re just pretending or lying to themselves. (Heaven knows, not all – or even most – atheists do this. But it is a stunning phenomenon. I have a friend who is an atheist former Orthodox Jew and she will vigorously defend the Orthodox definition of who is and isn’t a Jew, even as she tries to develop a taste for bacon-wrapped scallops).

      The more immersed in non-mainstream religion you are, the more it stands out, because so much of the atheist argument in the US is really an ‘anti-evangelical’ argument.

      • chingona

         /  February 28, 2012

        The best way I heard this put is that a certain kind of atheist is a fundamentalist. Basically, the agree with religious fundamentalists about what is and isn’t “real” religion.

        The think I never can understand is that if religion is a human construct – which, to be clear, I think it is – why can’t it be whatever people want it to be?

        • chingona

           /  February 28, 2012

          The *thing* I can never understand. …

          missing that edit function

    • And I quote:

      “Our culture is currently divided between three groups: Atheists, who think the truth matters, and want our problems addressed with real-world solutions; theists, who want a god or supernatural powers to solve our problems with magic; and fence-sitting parasites like de Botton who see a personal opportunity to pander to the believers for their own gain, who will ride the conflict while pretending to aloof from it, and win popularity with the masses by trying to tell everyone they’re all right”

      I was not in agreement with the foregoing.

      Neither was my atheist interfaith Twitter pal Chris Stedman.

  9. So R had his first day off in weeks yesterday, and today is the second one. Last night he said to me “You HAVE to see the Daily Show! You’ll NEVER believe what Santorum said!”

    Do we really think Romney will lose Michigan?

    • BJonthegrid

       /  February 28, 2012

      I hope Romney loses. Since the GOP debates are over, all I have to watch is the GOP freak out reality freak show. Don’t forget to vote for Ron Paul next week in Va.

      • Did I tell you there were Paultards outside of Target at 8am this morning? I was unsure if they had the wrong Tuesday, or just thought pre-work Target shoppers were good marks to spread the message of goldbuggery.

        • BJonthegrid

           /  February 28, 2012

          Paultards! Hahaha – My neighbor has signs in bedroom windows, on his lawn, on his fence on his red VW Bug. I asked him why he liked Paul so much, he said ” He’s about freedom” – His wife is voting for Obama.

    • David L

       /  February 28, 2012

      Given how much Romney has pissed off the UAW, etc. with his comments about letting the carmakers die, I think the polls just might be underestimating the number of people voting in the Republican primary that might not otherwise vote in the Republican primary, just so that they can send a message to Romney.

      AFAIK, Michigan has nothing but the presidency on the ballot today and there isn’t any partisan registration.

      • We should not even talk about this for fear that it will jinx it. The whole idea that Mittens could lose today is such a beautiful, delicate snowflake and we should not ruin it with our worldliness. Let us all look away. Look away!

        • caoil

           /  February 28, 2012

          I’m only going to say that every time someone calls him “Mittens”, I giggle. Can’t be helped, it’s too funny.

          • Me too! Giggling!

          • No, because it is an insult to kittens named Mittens everywhere.

            • caoil

               /  February 28, 2012

              But then the kittens named Mittens SWARM him with hugs and he is unable to get up off the couch from all the kittens and he misses all those months of campaigning and the election entirely.

              I mean, it could happen.

              • His strapping sons would tie them all to the roof of the car and… it wouldn’t end well, is what I’m saying. STOP BEING SO NAIVE, YOU CANADIAN.

  10. corkingiron

     /  February 28, 2012

    President Obama, doing warm-ups for the campaign. How awesome will he be when he actually starts!

    • I felt like he got a bit wobbily towards the end. But yes, I think by September, he will be in rare form.

      • socioprof

         /  February 28, 2012

        Shoot, another minute or two and I was heading over to Obama For America to make a donation.

  11. Captain Button

     /  February 28, 2012

    I did advanced voting last week, but just did the non-partisan sales tax thing. I don’t usually vote for unopposed cadidates, and consider it sleazy to try to sabotage a party I don’t support. Besides, I’m paranoid about high-risk high-gain bets.

  12. scone

     /  February 28, 2012

    Hey guys. In response to the war on women in Virginia, my mom and a bunch of other women have started a PAC called Women’s Strike Force, dedicated to voting out the legislators who supported the transvaginal ultrasound bill and the personhood bill.

    http://www.womensstrikeforce.com

    I know there’s a bunch of VA folks in the Horde, but I’m hoping that if Women’s Strike Force is successful in VA, it will send a message to the anti-abortion/war on women politicians in other states. Please donate if you can or pass the word along to people who might be interested!

    I just think it’s so cool that my mom said “Eff this! I’m getting something done!” and then did it.

  13. chingona

     /  February 28, 2012

    It appears my husband has been living under a rock for the last week or so. Perhaps a rock with the letter N.B.A. etched in it. Anyway, last night, he was watching the early Monday rerun of Daily Show from last week, which included the “Punanny State” bit. I hear this voice from the living room: “Transvaginal ultrasound?!!? Transvaginal!? That’s awful. That’s so intrusive. That’s unbelievable. Did you see this? This had to be some man’s idea. I can’t believe this. Transvaginal!”

    I reassured him that it had already been defeated, though unfortunately had passed in other states. And yes, I did feel a little swell of love.

    • R asked me what was it for exactly (yes, after seeing it on a daily show rerun yesterday.) And when I not only explained what it did, but added that I had had one when I had the ultrasound for the cyst, and that his sister was the one who had warned me ahead of time about it….yeah–watching it dawn on him that this was something women he knew and loved had experienced was distressing enough.

  14. baiskeli

     /  February 28, 2012

    First,

    The Good, the Bad and the Ugly = Clint Eastwood Movie
    The stupid, the idotic and the moronic = Republican Primary

    And in todays GOP politicians telling us exactly what type of country they want

    John Sullivan (R-Ok)

    After expressing his support for the GOP budget that shreds Medicare, Sullivan told his constituents in Bixby, Oklahoma on Wednesday that killing Democratic Senators may be the only guarantee of it’s passage unless Democrats take heavy Election Day losses this November.

    “Like I said, after this last election, the first order of business is pass a budget,” Sullivan declared. “Now, I believe that. I supported the Paul Ryan budget and sent it over to the Senate. Now I live with some Senators, I yell at them all the time, I grabbed one of them the other day and shook him and I’d love to get them to vote for it — boy I’d love that. You know but other than me going over there with a gun and holding it to their head and maybe killing a couple of them, I don’t think they’re going to listen unless they get beat.”

    I’ve got no words. It’s as if we live in a world where Gabrielle Giffords didn’t get shot in the head by a nutcase who might have taken his impetus from statements like the above.

    • helensprogeny

       /  February 28, 2012

      Some of them apparently don’t give a shit. It’s dispiriting. And if, gods forbid, some nutjob does take this as instruction rather than hyperbole, Sullivan will denydenydeny any and all responsibility of any kind. Because, you know, they’re surveyor’s symbols, not crosshairs.

      • baiskeli

         /  February 28, 2012

        Yeah, these people are scary. And of course, if called on it, there will be accusations of over-sensitiveness and “oh, I was misquoted”

  15. watson42

     /  February 28, 2012

    One of my sisters is a teacher in the NYC public school system and I had an interesting conversation with her last night about the release of the teacher data. I will try and compose a better post once I have my thoughts in order, but a couple of highlights include:

    Some teachers she knows had radically different scores depending on what class period was looked at. That is, same teacher, same lesson plans taught on the same day but radically different scores for the 3rd period class vs. the 4th period class.

    I also didn’t realize that at least in her school, kids can get transferred to different classrooms during the school year. Her example was that certain teachers end up with a high number of disruptive students because their initial teachers transferred the students out for being a problem. Typically the recipient teachers are the recognized best ones (i.e. most likely to be able to “handle” a problem student) or the lowest on the totem pole. As far as my sister knew, the data doesn’t take this into account i.e. some teachers consistently ending up with disruptive students that impact the whole class.

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      The number of ways those massaged results are ridiculous and worthless grows with each analytical pass.

      Things I haven’t seen addressed yet: Are disability-student classrooms included in the initial data pool? Does NYC have detention periods, and if so are those being included? Are science and history teachers among those being measured on how well their students did or did not improve in English and math … two subjects these teachers are not being paid to teach?

      • watson42

         /  February 28, 2012

        My sister talked about that a little. I need to think back about what she said.

        Related interesting point: she said that the data (as far as she knew) didn’t take into consideration how many students in a particular class were ELLs (“English-language learners”) but were grouped in with native speakers for the assessments of the teachers. In places like Queens, there can be a lot of ELL students in a single class, which of course impacts the “value added.”

        Interestingly, my sister noted that the teachers themselves are interested in the aggregate data in order to help identify things any particular school or curriculum might be doing well or need help with. For instance, transition into high school, performance in integrated classrooms or what have you.

  16. intangir

     /  February 28, 2012

    http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-passions-flare-lines-are-crossed/4006/

    During a video interview, the host suggests that sexual harassment is a problem in this particular video game community, gets this response from the guy he’s interviewing.

    “This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20-years-old and the sexual harassment is part of a culture,” said competitive fighting game player Aris “Aris” Bakhtanians on a recent live stream for Capcom’s Cross Assault show, “and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community.”

    Just one of his amazingly terrible comments. How do you even start to get through to someone like that?

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      Wow. I never thought I’d feel great about the gender-ratio and welcomingness of the Magic: The Gathering community, but compared to sexual harassment is an inextricable part of our culture the Magic card crowd are saints. Yipes.

      I’ve avoided MMOs and many interactive video games since my mudding days just because of all the rampant anonymous racism and sexism … but I don’t think I’ve ever previously heard an explicit defense based on “sexism and harassment is part of my culture and you can’t take that away”

      • intangir

         /  February 28, 2012

        Yeah it seems like it’s a step above the usual awfulness you see in games – not many people go out of their way to claim that it’s integral to what they do. I am glad to see that the interviewer pushes back several times but the guy just keeps digging himself a bigger hole:

        Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There’s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we’re in America, man, this isn’t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

        • Even the other fighting game die-hards seem, in the bulk, to recognize that this guy is an ass. Obviously some folks are on his side, because people, but not the majority. Which is a nice change at least.

  17. For Emily, because she is not on facebook:

    Romney Camp Calendar:
    Monday: headdesk;
    Tuesday: facepalm;
    Wednesday: wallslide;
    Thursday: headwall;
    Friday: footinmouth;
    Sat/Sun: ohshit

  18. chingona

     /  February 28, 2012

    Got into a FB argument about the HPV vaccine after someone posted a link about it now being recommend for boys.

    With all the good “How ’bout you teach your kids morals instead?” arguments.

    Teach your kids whatever you want, but if you think they need the threat of an early death from cancer to live by them, that’s some fucked up shit.

    • taylor16

       /  February 28, 2012

      Something like 85% of adult women will have HPV at some point in their lives. I did. Four of my five closest girlfriends did. My sister did.

      The morality argument about this particular disease can fuck off and die. Pardon my french.

      • chingona

         /  February 28, 2012

        The “I think getting cancer teaches kids a lesson” people were more numerous, but had no “likes” and the small number of us fighting the good fight had lots of “likes” and not just from each other, so I decided to call that victory and step away. The whole thing made me really, really mad, though. I don’t know anyone who has died of cervical cancer, but I know several people who died of AIDS, and I know the same arguments will get trotted out if/when we ever see an AIDS vaccine. To imagine their deaths and people thinking that’s just fine if it scares people into not having sex makes me extremely angry.

    • Which is a ridiculous argument because, while it’s main transmission route is as an STI there are other routes of infection.

  19. David L

     /  February 28, 2012

    The AP just reported that Olympia Snowe will not seek re-election.

    Damn. She was one of the good ones.

    • helensprogeny

       /  February 28, 2012

      Well, that sucks. Maybe she’s got other political aspirations – governor, as prelude to the White House? That might be interesting to see.

    • Darth Thulhu

       /  February 28, 2012

      Only question that matters: Is there a sane Democrat who can win the State? Trading Snowe for a Blue Dog is fine, but trading her for a Teahadi is not.

    • efgoldman

       /  February 28, 2012

      No, no she wasn’t.
      She talked a “moderate Republican” game, but when the time came to actually vote, she was always there with her vote (to sustain a filibuster, usually) for her feckless leader, Mitch the Turtle.
      Screw her and the lobster she rode in on.

  20. Can I ask a TTMLIS question? I’ve been reading some radical feminist stuff lately, mainly blogs and I’m going to the library to get some Dworkin. Anyone like? It seems kind of nuts, but maybe also Awesome? I’m very open to Horde knowledge about this. Considering I was raised in a Pentacostal quasi-cult and attended a Theonomist/Dominionist Bible Camp college, I’m a tabula rasa about many things–especially FEMINIST things. My husband just chuckles when I throw “How does it feel being a member of the default human class?”! and “You’re a tool of my oppression!” at him. Jokingly, usually while I’m cooking his dinner. :shiftysidelongglances

    • dmf

       /  February 28, 2012

      http://www.tannerlectures.utah.edu/lectures/documents/rorty92.pdf

      some men have wrestled with these issues, have you read any feminist theology?

    • cofax

       /  February 28, 2012

      Try some Audre Lorde. There’s a lot of pushback in minority circles against the way second-wave feminism prioritized white middle-class women’s concerns above the concerns of (often lower-income) women of color. As a result, a lot of WOC don’t self-identify as feminists, because they feel they’ve been shafted by the movement.

      Intersectionality is the keyword to be looking for these days.

      • Cool, thanks for the recommend.

        • socioprof

           /  February 28, 2012

          For classics, I would also recommend Toni Cade Bambara (and the anthology she edited called “The Black Woman”), Patricia Hill Collins, bell hooks, and Gloria Anzaldua (and the anthology she edited with Cherrie Moraga called “This Bridge Called My Back: Writings by Radical Women of Color”) on intersectionality theory. I can make some more focused and/or contemporary works as well if you’re interested.

    • Bookwoman

       /  February 28, 2012

      You weren’t by any chance in The Way, were you? I ask because it’s a quasi-cult that fits your description. I know a bunch of people who were in it in the ’80s.

      • No, I looked that up–this was much lower profile. I’m not going to “name it and claim it”, if that’s ok. Too many former members out there.

        • Bookwoman

           /  February 28, 2012

          Of course. From the stories my friends have told me, I can pretty well understand your reluctance.

    • WAKnight

       /  February 28, 2012

      Never read Dworkin, I love Kate Millet though (despite the huge, WOC shaped gaps in her worldview) on account of her brutal logic and general lucidity.

    • mythopoeia

       /  February 28, 2012

      Hey, welcome to the feminist/theologian reading! It’s a pretty cool journey.

      I am kicking myself like crazy because I was going to send you the syllabus for my Jewish & Christian Feminisms course from sophomore year of college, but it turns out I didn’t download a copy onto my hard drive. Sigh.

      So, since I have no names at my fingertips, I will instead offer you a piece of methodological advice: soak up everything as a whole, and start to see where the points of agreement and the points of dispute are. Take every new thing you read not as a way to say “hey, maybe this person will have a whole new way of thinking that works perfectly for me!” but “hey, I wonder what wisdom and insights they have? What problems did they tackle, and how did they solve them, or suggest solving them?” My particular feminist theologian hero (Margaret Farley) is such not because she taught me one way that I could live my life, but just because she taught me that the questions that were bugging me could in fact be thought through. So take all the trails they’ve carved, take heart from their existence, and carve your own.

      • mythopoeia, I love your username. Thanks for the recommend–I’m very much an absorption learner, if that’s not too cute, so your advice is well taken.

    • Sorn

       /  February 29, 2012

      Hi welcome, and congratulations for emerging from the long dark twilight of the soul that constitutes life in a universe where people speak in tongues. I don’t have any specifically feminist recommendations for you, but I can give you some books that will help with your knowledge of early Christian thought. So much of that worldview, whether it’s like the one you describe or even the more “mainline” Pentecostal denominations like that which I remember from my childhood, is ignorant of church history. I hope some of these books help or are interesting. The most important thing is to have a grasp of history.

      Also, you said you went to bible college, Did you learn Greek while there? In many ways, the best antidote to a Pentecostal world-view is a knowledge of Greek history. Viewed through the proper lens, Christ becomes a figure in a Neo-Platonic dialogue, with antecedents in Plotinus and Philo Judaeus. The history of Christianity is really fascinating, and the fundamentalists really do forget how Greek Christianity really is.

      • Thanks for the recommends! AIthough my training in Greek was not rigorous, I’m fairly well brushed up on early Christianity, as my Bible college was Presbyterian and Reformed (they’re big on history), and taught the classics. I’ve read Athanasius, Origen, John Chrysostom, Augustine, Pelagius, etc., and I dabbled in Eastern Orthodox theology for quite a while. I agree–early Christianity is really fascinating.

  21. caoil

     /  February 28, 2012

    If all goes swimmingly tonight*, I should be able to rearrange our collection of songs into something that flows relatively nicely. If that’s true, I will then be able to find a spot on the internet to upload it to, and get the links to JH2 as well as the contributors while I’m home tomorrow. Do you think there is interest for the bundle outside of those who participated? Maybe I’ll find a secondary site for it and post another set of links (I’m just trying to be cognizant of download limits & how many copies might be required!).

    *there’s a hockey game on, so I expect to be able to put headphones on and just work away until it’s time for The Mercer Report.

  22. You know how you like books? And you know how you think human relationships are what make a life?

    Warning: Mostly bad language all the way through.

  23. Just in case Michigan goes for Santorum, I just wanna say I love you guys, y’all are beautiful guys… sniff…

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